Wikivoyage:Hanul călătorilor/Arhiva 2004-2009

Status update

Hey, so, quick reminder: the en:Wikitravel:Language version policy asks for a monthly status update in the English Wikitravel logbook giving a quick update on what's going on here. It's been a month and a week (give or take) since we started Romanian -- I'm excited to see the progress story! --EvanProdromou 9 Feb 2004 10:57 (EST)

Yes, the logbook idea is a good one, but unfortunately we haven't reached 100 articles yet, so there's nothing much to say about the Romanian Wikipedia ;-). However, I see that Danutz has made a logbook entry anyway. There will be another one shortly when we reach 100, as well as an entry on the RO logbook when French Wikitravel is launched (there was one when English reached 1000 articles). However, monthly progress, even if a monthly milestone isn't reached, is also a good idea! Ronline 11 Feb 2004 02:02 (EST)

Cache

There's a new caching system on Wikitravel, based on the idea of 404 handler caching. Articles are written to the filesystem automatically when someone reads them, and the Web server uses those files, instead of calling the wiki script, from then on. There are upsides -- it's much faster! -- and downsides -- new talk notification is off, and user preferences are ignored (for display). If there are bugs, please report them to Utilizator:Ronline or to me. I'm trying to enable as much dynamic, personalized functionality as I can while still serving static files. Please be patient! --EvanProdromou 18 Noi 2004 16:06 (EST) P.S. Please translate this to Romanian!

Traducerea paragrafului anterior: "Există un nou sistem "caching" în Wikitravel bazat pe ideea 404 handler caching. Articolele sunt scrise automat în sistemul de fișiere atunci când cineva le citește și serverul web folosește acele fișiere în loc să apeleze la "wiki" script. Există atât avantaje -- e mult mai rapid!-- cât și dezavantaje -- notificarea mesajelor noi este dezactivată și preferințele utilizatorului sunt ignorate (la afișare). Dacă întâlniți defecțiuni, vă rog să le raportați utilizatorilor Ronline sau EvanProdromou. Încerc să activez cât mai multe funcționalități dinamice și personalizate în timp ce încă serverul web servește fișiere statice. Vă rog să aveți răbdare!"

Traduceri

Editarea unui articol poate fi si traducerea acelui articol din limba engleza in limba romana?

Da! ;) scuze pentru întârzierea răspunsului dar abia acum am ajuns pe aici! :D --Vlad 7 Dec 2005 12:10 (EST)

[en] Article templates

Sorry for the English here - my Romanian is no good, but I hope I can get the message through anyway. It's no big news that Romanian Wikitravel has been nearly dead for more than one year. More than disappointing, that's a sad realization because ro: was the first alternative language version to be lauched and so much energy and good will seems to have been spent here since then. Although versions other than English are not expected to grow as spectacularly as the original one, Romanian could have a couple of useful edits every now and then. Romanian Wikipedia is reasonably successful and I see no reason why Romanian Wikitravel couldn't be too.

Although I can't write in your language, as an enthusiast of the Wikitravel project I'd like to see this version thrive and I'm willing to help whenever I can. One of the things that seems to open the door for good edits is the adoption of Article templates. Those templates provide a standard look to all articles and are a good starting point for unexperienced contributors. The templates are self-explanatory and make editing as simple as filling in a form, instead of leaving the user with the task to be creative and come up with a guide structure out of the blue. I really think Romanian Wikitravel should adopt some article templates.

I've laid out a draft big city article template here. When completed, this can easily be scaled down to a small city template too, and with those we could cover most of the world's cities, which are the most common type of article. The only problem is that those templates need translation, so I was hoping somebody could go there and check:

• If the current headers (De înțeles, de dormit etc) sound good in Romanian (I've copied them from some existing articles) or need to be changed
• The headers in French (apprendre, sortir etc.) still need to be translated.

Translation of the other templates would be useful too, but those are the most important and should help us start breathing some fresh air in here soon. Rmx 1 martie 2007 16:48 (EET)

I couldn't agree with you more & I thank you once more for the effort you invest in this project! --Vlad 1 martie 2007 17:16 (EET)

Voilà: Format:Ciot oraș. Hope it's a good first step :) -- Rmx 4 martie 2007 01:27 (EET)

I too am sorry for the English, but... Thanks to RMX's recent work on the article templates. I hope we can get acceptable templates for all types of articles so we can make this version grow. As to the existing model for cities, I was thinking we should make some changes for consistency's sake, before the models get too disseminated to fix easily.

• I don't see why we need it to say "Bani și cumpărături" (Money and shoppping)-- I think "De cumpărat" (Buy) would be both more consistent and more in line with the other language versions.
• Along the same lines, I think we could say "De circulat" (Circulate/Get around) instead of "Ajuns acolo." (Having arrived there).
• Obviously I am not a great Romanian speaker, but I don't see why "Intră", "Rămâi în siguranță" and "Vezi și" should be in a different verb tense than the other headlines.

Obviously we need more native speakers' input here. Once we establish consensus for a consistent format system, we can quickly double or triple the number of articles here, and make it easier for everyone to contribute. Texugo 5 aprilie 2007 11:09 (EEST)

Texugo, I agree with your comments (point 1), but the problem is with the whole translation in the first place: using "de" was not such a great choice, but it stuck. But even "De circulat" doesn't make too much of a sense to a Romanian (given these two words out of the context, they doesn't mean anything, while "ajuns acolo" means to any romanian that once in place in the city, how one should move around. Again, using "De intrat" instead of "Intră" or "De rămas în siguranță" doesn't make any sense or "De văzut și" is very artificial. I'm in favour of maybe completely rewrite the stub translation, my only problem being my very limited time. As you're an admin (I'm not sure Rmx is one too) maybe you're interested in taking this over (of course, I can always help you with pure Romanian issues) (on one hand, I trust you as an admin and thje language barrier doesn't seem to be unbreakable and on the other hand, my very limited time made me resign from my all wiki projects admins (this one being so low traffic before you came allowed me to clean off occasional vandalism). What do you say? --Vlad 6 aprilie 2007 16:44 (EEST)

Ok. If you think the "De + ..." is bad, then hmmmmmm... The old template wasn't used in THAT many articles-- I don't think it will take long to replace them, so let's start from scratch! If you can make a totally fresh template for a , I think Rmx and I can use that to make most of the rest of the location templates. Use whichever verb tense you think is appropriate, using the same tense for each title if possible. It doesn't have to be a literal translation, but try to make it as direct as you can. The titles should be as short, as simple, and as consistent as possible. Remember that the titles are a little weird in English too, on purpose. Please read the short bit here if you have time: We don't want the titles to be the same as what you would find in a commercial guide you buy at the bookstore... Anyway... Do you think you have time to do that? It would really help out a lot! Texugo 7 aprilie 2007 11:58 (EEST)

No more Legături externe, no more Sunteți aici!

I have completely eliminated the Legături externe sections from every article and replaced all the old HTML Sunteți aici with the IsIn template. Texugo 8 aprilie 2007 17:24 (EEST)

Article Templates, Take 2

OK. Obviously Vlad is very busy. Anyway, I went ahead and gave my best shot at translating the location article templates from scratch. I chose to use a common command form, as it is in the English version. Have a look:

• Ciot: Regiune
• Ciot: Țară
• Ciot: Oraș mic
• Ciot: Oraș mare
• Ciot: Metropolă
• Ciot: District

Everyone please give me some comments and suggestions on these! Once we agree on some templates, we can really bring this language version back to life. Texugo 10 aprilie 2007 15:35 (EEST)

Ok, I see your point. But in English this construction is easy (see, do, eat etc.) Translating this in other languages gives out incomprehensible syntagms... --Vlad 10 aprilie 2007 18:17 (EEST)

Hmm... well, actually we could look at it another way-- in English the command form is the same as the base dictionary form, so what if we use that?: A ințelege ; A întra ; A vorbi ; A Învăța ; A lucra ; A cumpăra etc... Would that make more sense? Texugo 10 aprilie 2007 18:56 (EEST)

OK. Thank you Vlad for your changes. I think we are almost there, but a few things remain:

• The section that reads Faceți față is meant to be the Cope section, which is pretty weird in English too. This section contains things like public libraries and laundromats. Previous articles here used Viața de zi cu zi, and indeed, the Spanish and Portuguese versions say something similar (Cotidiano, etc.). If Faceți față makes absolutely no sense, then I think perhaps Viața de zi cu zi is acceptable, although sometimes it misleads people to write a paragraph about the daily lives of the locals. (I think it would be even better if we could get away with just Zi cu zi-- the shorter the better.)
• I think there is a problem with the titles using Unde. For example, the section that now reads Unde mâncați should include not only where to eat, but also what to eat (i.e. local dishes/specialties, local products), and sometimes even how to eat (i.e. Don't pass food with your chopsticks or leave them sticking out of your rice while eating in Japan). Unde cumpărați will sometimes include not only where to buy but also what to buy (local products, etc.), and how (currency, haggling, common scams, etc.). Similarly, the section that says Unde dormiți often doesn't include any places, but rather an explanation of unique lodging types or a generalization of lodging prices. The others have similar problems. I was trying to avoid changing them to nouns like aliment or locuință because I thought maybe that would be the same as commercial travel guides. Then again, I've never looked at a commercial travel guide in Romanian, but it's just more Wikitravel-like if we can keep them as verbs somehow.
• The talk section is meant to have information about languages and dialects spoken in the country or region and occasionally a few useful phrases if it is a small language not likely to have its own language article. I don't think we want to use Ghid de conversație here since we already have a whole separate article type for that, and because it might encourage people to make a phrasebook on the spot. Again I've been trying to avoid turning things into nouns when possible. Is Vorbiți really that strange?
• Can we use Contact instead of Contacte? This section is more about keeping in contact with friends and family, not really a list of contacts.
• Regarding the three price levels in the Eat and Sleep sections: Obviously Ieftin/Moderat/Scump is okay, but if we can find something a little less standard it would be better, I think. Can we use Econom instead of Ieftin? Also, Scump can sound a little needlessly expensive, while Splurge means to spend extra money on something very nice, to give yourself a treat. Isn't there a word like that in Romanian?
• Respectați următoarele reguli is pretty long and a little off the point. The Respect is not really about rules but more about showing respect to the locals, not accidentally disrespecting them because of cultural differences, etc. It could be customs that should be followed or behaviors to avoid, how to blend in, etc. Is simply Respectați completely impossible?

Really, I guess my only concerns are that our title are short and that they are unique, not just like other guides. Texugo 12 aprilie 2007 03:16 (EEST)

Ok. I keep trying new things-- we're bound to find something we all like eventually! Please tell me what you think about the current version. I think it's at least very consistent: Ciot oraș mare. Texugo 13 aprilie 2007 11:44 (EEST)

Self-nomination for administrator

I'm going to nominate myself for administrator here, since the admin nomination page hasn't been created yet. Currently Vlad is the only active administrator on this language version, and he is very busy with other things, and I seem to have a lot of time lately, so I think I can be of use here. I've gone through every article here removing the external links sections and replacing the old Sinteți aici HTML stuff with the IsIn script. Currently trying to get some article templates going. I really want to help turn this thing around and make it grow again. What do you say? Texugo 10 aprilie 2007 19:27 (EEST)

I say this: I'm going to give you administrator status on ro: immediately, rather than waiting 2 weeks. If there are any complaints or issues with this, I'll roll it back. --Evan 10 aprilie 2007 20:01 (EEST)

I support this, I've encouraged Texugo to go ahead and ask for sysop, and thank you Evan for the prompt reaction! --Vlad 11 aprilie 2007 15:46 (EEST)

Could somebody check and change this one?

Hello everibody. I am trying to create few pages regarding New Zealand, in my language (Romanian), and I got my first problem. New Zeealand in translation is Noua Zeelandă. So, when people will type on the search field they will type Noua Zeelanda. How can be changed the search results to go to Noua Zeelandă.

Thank you, in advance, for your help and your answers, Victor.

You can redirect pages by creating the page (or blanking it if it already exists) and using the following syntax:
#REDIRECT [[Name of the article]]
I went ahead and made a redirect for you in this case. Thanks for you contributions. Please let me know if you need anything. I can't write in Romanian, but I'll be glad to help you! Texugo 28 septembrie 2007 11:27 (EEST)

I can't edit pages

I tryed to edit the page regarding New Zealand in Romanian, i can see The source but I can't edit this article. Could somebody change this, or at least to give me the right(s) to edit and contribute. Will be apreciated, thank you. Teo 12 februarie 2009 12:22 (EET)Teo

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Discuția de mai sus este păstrată ca arhivă. Vă rugăm să nu o modificați. Comentarii ulterioare pot fi adăugate pe paginile de discuție ale subiectelor discutate. Această discuție nu trebuie să mai fie modificată în nici un fel.